Porsche slow to BEV Macan

All Porsche Macan Related Discussion
bennachie
Posts: 685
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:10 pm

Post by bennachie » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:45 pm

Interesting thoughts, many of which I share.............

but, get a move on. Taycan has been oout for a while now............
'The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time'

Madelvic
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:48 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by Madelvic » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:56 pm

cc3 wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:18 pm
2026/7 solid state batteries. Double the range and half the weight. Will make today’s EV’s look rather dull. I’m in no rush. Have an electric Mini. It’s fun but still prefer the petrol Macan GTS with that sports exhaust !!
Assuming / expecting batteries will improve significantly and hydrogen appears en masse, I expect todays EVs will plummet in value; near worthless in 10 years time
2017 Macan GTS Carmine Red
2005 Boxster S Artic Silver

OmniCognateSnr
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:07 am

Post by OmniCognateSnr » Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:50 pm

GTB wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:58 pm
OmniCognateSnr wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:27 pm
Don’t forget Porsche are also working on their own zero emission bio-fuel for all existing ICE cars ( although frankly I’d be amazed if that ever goes anywhere).
EV will have a place in UK transport for sure, but in my opinion its not the "Silver Bullet" that the UK Gov and unfortunately many others think it is. EV does have a place and for me thats those people that make regular shorter type journey's and have ready access to a charger at home or local pavement. I drive 30K per year for my buisness and current E Class Merc I can cover some 700+ miles before I need to refuel so I can easily cover from home on Loch Lomond all the way down to London to see clients without refuelling, other than comfort breaks for myself if I need to, if I need to top up with fuel I can easily do so and fill up in a few minutes. Trying the same journey in an EV will certainly involve at least one if not two stops to recharge and thats presuming I can find a fast charger that is free, working etc so would certainly add an hour or so on to my travels.

The "Range" being quoted is exactly that based on a full charged battery at optimal ambient temperatures as I mentioned once temps drop below 5 Deg C range rapidly declines, driving technique, weather, uphill, constant start stopping all reduces range, plus of course nobody would ever run down battery to say 25 Miles left to go and take that risk of running out of charge. On a fast charger the battery can normally only ever be charged back up to 80 - 85% charge so range is then limited. Just the same as your smart phone when it runs down, yes you can boost charge it to *80% then it need to trickle/standard charge the rest, also same as mobile phones and prolonging the life of those batteries, you shouldnt just boost/fast charge all the time as the battery degrades far quicker.

Withought doubt Hydrogen fuel cell technolodgy has a far reaching place to play as a fuel, but the people that lobby central Gov are struggling to be heard. I was involved with the Hydrogen infrastructure for the Olympics in London and there is the first public Hydrogen dispensers at Shell Cobham on the south part of the M25, car manufacturers have the technoldgy and can roll them out if the infrasructure is there so a chicken/egg situation.

Depending where you stay, how you use your vehicle will really determine what solution is best, Im certainly not anti EV, its just not practicable for me.

Also as seen in a very recent article, those already moved to EV or considering it will be in line for a financial shock, the UK Treasurery has already lost revenue from fuel duty as people move away from ICE and they will want that revenue back. I dont think it will be that long before traditional fuel duty paid at the hydrocarbon pump is dropped, road tax is dropped and we all move on to a pay per mile tax ssytem, easy to do so cost will be based on how clean your engine/fuel is, what time of day you drive, what type of roads and number of miles per year. Current system is not sustainable.

CNG ( Compressed natural gas) is another slightly cleaner fuel albeit you are burning pure Methane and is a common fuel in many other countries in the world and manufacturers do not need to do a lot to change the ICE.

HBEF ( High blend ethanol fuels) again used in many countries so liqufied fuels higher than 80 % possibly 95% ethanol so again greener because ethanol sourced from plants/crops and again manufacturers do not need to do a lot to change the ICE.

The UK in my opinion has the EV "Blinkers" on and arent considering lots of other very viable alternatives.

GTB
Nicely put. I’m with you on all of that. If I had access to more than one car I’d have an electric for local stuff and an ICE for long range. However, the obvious point there is that from an environmental stand point that’s probably the worst scenario. I totally understand people living on the north circular would probably be quite happy of all the cars passing their houses were electric, but realistically all that does is push the problem down stream and most environmentalists, no matter how enlightened they think they are, don’t look at the bigger picture just at making headlines.

There’s also the small matter of cost. Even the cheapest practical EV’s are around £30k and not everyone has that kind of spare cash, so you start producing an underclass that can’t afford a car. So there are also social considerations to be taken into account.

I suspect ICE as we know it probably only has about 20-30 years left in it, but I’m really not clever enough to know what will replace it ( and frankly, by that point, probably wont care all that much ). It wont go out in a big bang, it’ll fizzle out until we can’t remember why we ever used it.

bennachie
Posts: 685
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:10 pm

Post by bennachie » Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:47 pm

Sadly I think battery development has a long way to go. Solid state is not just around the corner. Think how far battery technology has not come in thelast 100 years despite military requirements (think submarines - still lead acid) and the rise of the mobile phone. Battery life and energy density have not improved significantly since the U2 in your glimmer torch of the 60s - assuming you are that decrepit (as indeed I am)
'The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time'

GTB
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by GTB » Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:48 pm

Hi Everyone,
Just continuing on this theme a bit of EV and when Porsche will launch the Mecan EV and possibly other models. I already posted industry in state of flux and nobody knows where things will settle and I stated EV is not a magic bullet and will replace ICE vehicles in all their shapes and forms and meet expectations of all customers requirements where they live and how they purchase and run their vehicles. I already mentioned Hydrogen fuel cells are favoured by many simply because hydrogen vehciles can "Fill up" at a traditional "Filling station" albeit with a hydrogen dispenser, so no need for home and work and on street charging.

I was made aware and ready interesting article from Hyundai Group today and developments and strides been taken in lowering costs and life expectancy of Fuel cell technolodgy, Ok some of their targets are a wee while away 2040, but lets face it EV technolodgy changing every three months.

Anyway link below for those of you interested in alternative fuels, and would not surprise me that many motor manufacturers including Porsche aint putting all their money on the EV Horse!

The video is worth a watch for sure.

https://www.petrolplaza.com/news/28084?nl=1

Cheers GTB

OmniCognateSnr
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:07 am

Post by OmniCognateSnr » Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:43 pm


GTB
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by GTB » Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:28 pm

Thanks for that OmniCognateSnr, always to good to read another article on the same news item.

You never know all this Hydrogen, they might bring back airships!! or maybe just better Fuel cell aircraft!

GTB

Rarecolour
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:39 am

Post by Rarecolour » Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:44 pm

I watched a "The Smoking Tyre" car review of a Hyundia (pretty sure it was a Hyundia) that was hydrogen, granted it was in USA, but he had a shocking time trying to get it filled up. You can't just follow a car that's just been filled up and get filled up yourself, the tank/bellow has to fill back up again, pretty sure you had to wait over 30 minutes before using the pump again.
2021 Macan Turbo

Ex -
Audi RS6 (Misano Red)
Audi S4 (Silver)
Audi S3 (Imola Yellow)
Peugeot 309 goodwood (Green)
Peugeot 306 gti-6 (Silver)
Peugeot 205 gti (Ltd edition Sorento Green)

User avatar
F1 Nut
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:04 pm

Post by F1 Nut » Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:05 pm

I was talking to a chap a couple of weeks ago who believed the reason why hydrogen has not yet taken off is because on a molecular level, hydrogen is extremely small and therefore impregnates the material used to store it, thus weakening said material over time. It eventually leaks and can cause possible explosions. Don’t know how true this is, but sounds plausible to me. Several manufacturers have been working on hydrogen for decades, but haven’t cracked it.
Current: Macan Turbo 2021 http://www.porsche-code.com/PM513BZ5
Previous: BMW 540i 2018

GTB
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by GTB » Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:05 pm

Rarecolour wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:44 pm
I watched a "The Smoking Tyre" car review of a Hyundia (pretty sure it was a Hyundia) that was hydrogen, granted it was in USA, but he had a shocking time trying to get it filled up. You can't just follow a car that's just been filled up and get filled up yourself, the tank/bellow has to fill back up again, pretty sure you had to wait over 30 minutes before using the pump again.
Rarecolour,
If you are ever near Shell Cobham on the southside of the M25 go in and see the Hydrogen dispensers there. I was involved with the infrastructure and yes its a "Process" to fill a car as the tanks equal out and then fill also the thermal shock of the very cold temps involved anyway filling pressure is either 400 or 700Bar and then cycles down, but on there as one car leaves the next can start due to the larger vessel that acts as storage as there is a electroliser on site so Hydrogen produced on site and not delivered in a gas vessel.

Cheers GTB

Post Reply

  • You may also be interested in...
    Replies
    Views
    Last post