eFuel

[Jon A]

Manufacturers are starting to speak up regarding EV's not being the silver bullet. I think they've realised that there will be no such thing as a cheap EV. Not one with any decent range anyway.

The whole EV thing took off due to tax breaks for company cars. And that's probably where most of the sales still are.

The average punter who spent less that £20k on a new Fiesta, can't just suddenly afford £50k+ on an EV as they still need decent range. Car sales will fall, and probably fall dramatically as ICE cars become a thing of the past. They need an alternative, and E-Fuel is probably the answer. But legislation doesn't let them spend Billions on R&D. That is designated to EV cars, as the legislation say that what they can sell.

It only takes every car manufacturer to refuse to sell EV only cars. Governments would lose billions in tax, and have to cave in.

Range isn’t the issue Wab. My neighbour’s EV6 has a better range than my Macan, it replenishing it that is the issue, or at least where to do it. If you have a small runabout (as many on here do) I can’t see that you would need to charge it anywhere other than at home, so replenishing is not an issue.
If you need a car for longer distance driving then infrastructure is the problem, not the car or it’s range.
Seems like this will get solved with time, EV’s are still in their infancy. I’m sure there will be a good mix of power plants for some years to come though…

So why don't you have an EV then if they are so good? Genuine question?

Just think if we spent as much time and money developing E-Fuels instead of Building EV's. Imagine how much greener that would be to our planet?

And if the overall plan is to rid the planet of Carbon, then we're all dead. Basic biology teaches us that.

Well, we have an EV runabout inbound and will swap Macan in a couple of years and that may be an EV too. Personally, and I’ve said this on here many times, I don’t judge the car by its powerplant but just by how good it is as a car.
I don’t think we are trying to “rid the planet of carbon”, that would be ridiculous, I think we are trying to slow catastrophic global warming by taking some carbon out of the atmosphere - a pretty laudable aim I think??

[pmg]

Manufacturers are starting to speak up regarding EV's not being the silver bullet. I think they've realised that there will be no such thing as a cheap EV. Not one with any decent range anyway.

The whole EV thing took off due to tax breaks for company cars. And that's probably where most of the sales still are.

The average punter who spent less that £20k on a new Fiesta, can't just suddenly afford £50k+ on an EV as they still need decent range. Car sales will fall, and probably fall dramatically as ICE cars become a thing of the past. They need an alternative, and E-Fuel is probably the answer. But legislation doesn't let them spend Billions on R&D. That is designated to EV cars, as the legislation say that what they can sell.

It only takes every car manufacturer to refuse to sell EV only cars. Governments would lose billions in tax, and have to cave in.

Range isn’t the issue Wab. My neighbour’s EV6 has a better range than my Macan, it replenishing it that is the issue, or at least where to do it. If you have a small runabout (as many on here do) I can’t see that you would need to charge it anywhere other than at home, so replenishing is not an issue.
If you need a car for longer distance driving then infrastructure is the problem, not the car or it’s range.
Seems like this will get solved with time, EV’s are still in their infancy. I’m sure there will be a good mix of power plants for some years to come though…

Even with infrastructure the the 5% to 80 % refuel time for an EV is currently going to be at least 20 mins cf 5 mins at most for petrol or hydrogen

[Jon A]

Manufacturers are starting to speak up regarding EV's not being the silver bullet. I think they've realised that there will be no such thing as a cheap EV. Not one with any decent range anyway.

The whole EV thing took off due to tax breaks for company cars. And that's probably where most of the sales still are.

The average punter who spent less that £20k on a new Fiesta, can't just suddenly afford £50k+ on an EV as they still need decent range. Car sales will fall, and probably fall dramatically as ICE cars become a thing of the past. They need an alternative, and E-Fuel is probably the answer. But legislation doesn't let them spend Billions on R&D. That is designated to EV cars, as the legislation say that what they can sell.

It only takes every car manufacturer to refuse to sell EV only cars. Governments would lose billions in tax, and have to cave in.

Range isn’t the issue Wab. My neighbour’s EV6 has a better range than my Macan, it replenishing it that is the issue, or at least where to do it. If you have a small runabout (as many on here do) I can’t see that you would need to charge it anywhere other than at home, so replenishing is not an issue.
If you need a car for longer distance driving then infrastructure is the problem, not the car or it’s range.
Seems like this will get solved with time, EV’s are still in their infancy. I’m sure there will be a good mix of power plants for some years to come though…

Even with infrastructure the the 5% to 80 % refuel time for an EV is currently going to be at least 20 mins cf 5 mins at most for petrol or hydrogen

Absolutely agree with you there PMG although my neighbour tells me that that is the least of his concerns as he recharges so seldom away from home. Actually, I think hybrids are starting to make sense now too. I notice the new Cayenne will have a 20kw battery giving around 50 miles of useable range.
I bet I have only driven more than fifty miles in a day on less than 20 days in a year…
If these cars can get to 100miles range with a nice ICE too, I’m all for it!

[Rarecolour]

Manufacturers are starting to speak up regarding EV's not being the silver bullet. I think they've realised that there will be no such thing as a cheap EV. Not one with any decent range anyway.

The whole EV thing took off due to tax breaks for company cars. And that's probably where most of the sales still are.

The average punter who spent less that £20k on a new Fiesta, can't just suddenly afford £50k+ on an EV as they still need decent range. Car sales will fall, and probably fall dramatically as ICE cars become a thing of the past. They need an alternative, and E-Fuel is probably the answer. But legislation doesn't let them spend Billions on R&D. That is designated to EV cars, as the legislation say that what they can sell.

It only takes every car manufacturer to refuse to sell EV only cars. Governments would lose billions in tax, and have to cave in.

Range isn’t the issue Wab. My neighbour’s EV6 has a better range than my Macan, it replenishing it that is the issue, or at least where to do it. If you have a small runabout (as many on here do) I can’t see that you would need to charge it anywhere other than at home, so replenishing is not an issue.
If you need a car for longer distance driving then infrastructure is the problem, not the car or it’s range.
Seems like this will get solved with time, EV’s are still in their infancy. I’m sure there will be a good mix of power plants for some years to come though…

Even with infrastructure the the 5% to 80 % refuel time for an EV is currently going to be at least 20 mins cf 5 mins at most for petrol or hydrogen

From what I believe, filling up with hydrogen is quick, but the pump you have to fill up from can take a long time to refill.

The whole "EVs are better for the environment" is a bit of a scam when you look at the whole picture.

[SAC1]

My concern is the over depency on electricity for all its increasing uses.

The mass powering of vehicles by electric, I believe, will be confined to cars and urban use vans. Other vehicle types - truck, buses, plant & equipment, not to mention trains and ships - will require alternative fuel[s].

Petrol and diesel is univesally availble. Everyone can access a fuel station and refill quickly.

BEVs with their charge times are a backward step. A significant number of people do not have access or the opportunity to install a home charger either. The on street charger lamp post is not a panacea either for all. Then there is the queue time to find a public working charger, that is working, accepts your payment and one where another BEV is not already tethered for a long time.

Emergency services that have taken on BEVs - estate cars and vans - have already found that recharging times are an issue to keep them on on the road 24/7.

93% of new Light Commercial Vehicles sold in Britain are diesel powered. So far in 2023 EV versions of LCVs have plummeted by 18%. Yet diesel LCVs are up 20%. The proportion of diesel trucks in the EU grew again last year - to almost 97%, which is virtually saturation point. Where are the electric, hydrogen, LPG and other alternatives. Nonexistent it seems.

In the music world we had vinyl records / LPs, Then it was the 8-track cartridge player that in turn lost out to the casette. Next up the CD, followed by the MP3 player. iPod, down loadable stick and now its all over the air for music with downloads and the good old radio / DAB player.

I just hope that this rush to BEVs for cars is not ill judged by all concerned.

[andreas]

Back to the topic, I thought that eFuel still produces nasty emissions. On that basis, it doesn't sound great.

[Skyway]

“Range isn’t the issue Wab. My neighbour’s EV6 has a better range than my Macan”

Blimey, you might wanna get it looked at then . Filled mine up recently and the range was something like 418 miles.

My diesel Merc has a range of 791 miles on a full tank too. EVs are nowhere near yet.

[Jon A]

“Range isn’t the issue Wab. My neighbour’s EV6 has a better range than my Macan”

Blimey, you might wanna get it looked at then . Filled mine up recently and the range was something like 418 miles.

My diesel Merc has a range of 791 miles on a full tank too. EVs are nowhere near yet.

I only do mainly short journeys Skyway. The range might extend to 400 if I was traveling to Devon but the reality is around 320 per tank doing about 10 miles per day in urban traffic. The EV6 will push 340 for him in same traffic although perversely, if he was blasting down to Devon it would drop drastically to around 210!!
My boss has a Taycan and travels from Leeds to Derby most days. Chargers at work so it’s a dream for him. He says now he understands the car and how to get the best from it, he loves it and the fact that it is electric is all but forgotten

[Skyway]

Yeah, the mpg is pretty low around town but I still think you’d do better than the EV especially in winter.

[Jon A]

Yeah, the mpg is pretty low around town but I still think you’d do better than the EV especially in winter.

You might be right but it doesn’t really matter what the range is as long as it’s more than I would drive in a day.
For me that would be around 300 miles and I might only do that twice a year so would always be replenished overnight at home or destination.
Folks get fixated about range rather than how well the car performs as a car etc.
I like quick cars that handle well so that’s where most EV’s fall down for me but not all…
Enjoying Macan for now but inevitably I’ll want to try something different in due course