eFuel

[Wolands Advocate]

Back to the topic, I thought that eFuel still produces nasty emissions. On that basis, it doesn't sound great.

As it stands yes, but if the sheer quantity of funds was chucked at that problem as are being invested in electric car technology and charging infrastructure, I reckon it’s possible to reduce that very significantly, human ingenuity being what it is.

[wilko]

E-fuels are the answer to so many problems.
But as with batteries etc they make zero difference until we have an excess of renewable energy. While we produce half our electricity from fossil fuels, electric cars make no difference to climate change. The only minor benefit they offer is reducing NOx levels locally.
E- fuels should be seen as energy storage just like batteries, but with significantly higher energy density.
Methane could be made using the same process, and we already have all the infrastructure in place for its storage distribution and use. It also allows us to bridge the disparity between renewable energy production and our time of use curve.

All the CO2 and water produced in burning them is absorbed in their production. They can be used to fuel their own distribution etc.

But the big but is this all only works when we have an excess of renewable energy which will need us to more than treble the number of wind farms we currently have, and that’s just the uk.

Localised NOx issues could be sorted by small battery hybrids (30mile range) to get through urban areas and then recharge using e fuel when out of urban areas. Vehicles that never leave urban areas would have to charge from the grid as they do now.

[Skyway]

Too many wind farms would be needed and it’s not reliable. It’ll be nuclear power stations they build not wind farms.

[wab172uk]

Yeah, the mpg is pretty low around town but I still think you’d do better than the EV especially in winter.

You might be right but it doesn’t really matter what the range is as long as it’s more than I would drive in a day.
For me that would be around 300 miles and I might only do that twice a year so would always be replenished overnight at home or destination.
Folks get fixated about range rather than how well the car performs as a car etc.
I like quick cars that handle well so that’s where most EV’s fall down for me but not all…
Enjoying Macan for now but inevitably I’ll want to try something different in due course

But you're using your lifestyle example to justify everyone embracing EV technology. Like I said, the manufacturers are voicing concerns. And if anyone would know, they would.

If everyone bought an EV tomorrow, our network simply couldn't cope. Look at Christmas just gone, and the massive queues of cars at the charging stations sat waiting to charge their cars. And that is with a tiny minority of EV cars on our roads.

Nuclear power isn't the answer either. Something goes wrong, and we are all F***ed. Look at Japan. We are a tiny island. An exclusion zone would take up a large proposition of our country.

I cannot understand how anyone would say E-Fuel isn't the answer. It means not scrapping hundreds of millions of perfectly good cars around the world, to then build hundreds of millions of new EV (or even Hydrogen) cars, that as we know, building an EV is far far more damaging to the environment than building several ICE cars.

Yes, E-Fuels aren't Zero emissions out the exhaust. But running an existing ICE car on E-fuel is far better than building an EV. I really think most people banging on about how clean EV's are, have no clue just how much damage building an EV does not only to the environment, but to human life . There are adults and children dying every day while mining the cobalt and other materials necessary to build a battery. And they have admitted that most of the Cobalt needed is below the ocean floors, and at some point they will need to extract it. Now it doesn't take a genius to realise how much damage that will create for sea life. But for the majority of people, see no evil, hear no evil. Get into your EV every morning thinking you are doing good, when it's quite the opposite.

Unfortunately we live in a media led society. It's a fact that most MSM is owned and controlled by 6 large corporations. So they dictate what goes out on screen. When they get paid (handsomely) to report a one sided view, that's the only view you see. Hence why we never see a debate on TV, as they know the non-sponsored experts the MSM never give air time to, would make the sponsored experts look like idiots.

And again, all the facts are out there for everyone to read and view. Sadly people can't be arsed, and instead just switch on the news, and believe everything they are told. And if someone dares say anything different, (as they have read facts) they get called a conspiracy theorist. Brilliant.

[pmg]

I am amazed at how little effort is being devoted to Tidal energy

[Skyway]

Totally agree wab172uk

[Jon A]

So I think tidal generation is dependent on geography, cost and turbine technology in order to get the optimum return on investment. As an island we are well placed in terms of geography and tidal flows, and turbine technology is moving at pace. Cost is key as it requires a huge redevelopment of a given shoreline to make work.
Re batteries, rare earth metal free versions already exist and Tesla says they will phase them all out in their batteries by 2030.
Nuclear will also be part of the answer particularly Small Modular Reactors that can be placed on existing decommissioned coal power station sites. This is RR technology and has received the go ahead to develop very recently (my son is part of the development team at RR Nuclear).
Efuel will have its place as will hydrogen as I imagine this would suit “big transport” like trains, ships and large wagons.
I imagine EV’s will continue to develop to mitigate replenishment times, range etc
So a grand mixture of technologies, all so we can stop digging fossil fuels out of the ground.

All this doesn’t mean I don’t love petrol cars and great engines, just that change is happening and you can either complain or embrace…

[Skyway]

You can embrace providing you're a reasonably wealth off middle classed citizen, probably using a company salary scarifice to mitgate 40% taxation.

If you're the average man in the street an EV is never gonna happen. 8 year old EVs with end of life batteries delivering about 20% of their as new range are not gonna fill this market. I see the UK becoming another Cuba with old ICE cars being made to work for decades.

[Jon A]

You can embrace providing you're a reasonably wealth off middle classed citizen, probably using a company salary scarifice to mitgate 40% taxation.

If you're the average man in the street an EV is never gonna happen. 8 year old EVs with end of life batteries delivering about 20% of their as new range are not gonna fill this market. I see the UK becoming another Cuba with old ICE cars being made to work for decades.

that’s quite an obtuse point of view Skyway…
I don’t know what the future is for BEV’s but I do know that the world is already changing and these technologies will only develop and improve.
The future may not be batteries, or it may, but it will definitely not be fossil fuels so we will need to adapt I think.
The thing I find amazing is how quickly it’s happening which is a huge nod to human ingenuity.
Don’t mistake this as anti petrol car rhetoric, I love them, but I’m not anti EV (or any alternative) either

[wab172uk]

I am amazed at how little effort is being devoted to Tidal energy

I have spoken many times about this. Not on here, but to friends and family.

The simple fact is that we could have Tens of thousands of tidal buoys bobbing up and down all day creating electricity. Unlike wind farms, even if the wind isn't blowing, the tide is still moving. We coulld be completely self sufficient.

But as with everything that will `save the planet` it is only acted on if big business can make a profit. There is a huge amount of money to be made (paid for by the tax payer) for wind farms. Those turbines cost a lot to build, install (more so if offshore) and need continuous maintenance. Offshore can be either ship or Helicopter. Which are all chargeable.

Oh, and the turbines themselves cannot be recycled. Makes sense doesn't it !

You can manufacture buoys at very little expense (compared to a wind turbine), and they are cheap to install and maintain. So no huge profits for the corporations. You also can't justify a `Green levy` on people energy bills.

As with everything that big business and governments get behind. Always follow the money.